Kommentare zu: Neufeld Isak – 10. März 1909

Von: Johannes

Johannes — Sun, 18 Jul 2010 05:52:05 +0000

Als Antwort auf Chaya-Bathya Markovits. Muss hier Rabbiner Kinstlicher wohl Recht geben. Die genealogische Klaviatur beherrsche ich nicht wirklich, aber die Daten in der hebräischen Inschrift sprechen dafür, die genealogischen Anmerkungen beim anderen Isak Neufeld zu machen.

Von: Chaya-Bathya Markovits

Chaya-Bathya Markovits — Sun, 18 Jul 2010 05:12:22 +0000

Rabbiner Kinstlicher fragt hierzu:
מדוע לא יועבר כל החומר עליו ליצחק נויפלד הראשון, ששם רשום באמת שאביו הוא דוד, ואילו כאן לא מוזכר כלל שם האב.

Von: Johannes

Johannes — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 14:16:32 +0000

Als Antwort auf Carole Vogel. Without doubt it is confusing and it was only possible to assign the inscription with the records because Neustadt is mentioned both in the records and in the inscription :)

Von: Carole Vogel

Carole Vogel — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 13:57:13 +0000

Yitzchok Stroh thinks that is extremely unlikely that the stepmother’s name would be put on the tombstone. He suggests that the birth mother was also named Tzirel. I cannot find a woman names Tzirl or Cilli in the Mattersdorf death records in 1833-1836. The birth mother could have died between 1830 and 1832 (before the metrical records started) and the father waited quite a while before remarrying.

Von: Carole Vogel

Carole Vogel — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 13:33:01 +0000

@Johannes: My dyslexia is kicking in — two men with fathers with the same name, who died within 24 hours of each other and have records written in Hebrew and German and not a single word in English is just too much for my American-English-tuned brain to keep straight . Sorry for the confusion.

Von: Johannes

Johannes — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 12:45:11 +0000

@Carole: In Austria there are some “Kirchberg’s”, but I think it is the Kirchberg in southern Lower Austria.
But we find Kirchberg mentioned only on the other Neufeld-stone, not on this one!

Why do you think that Kirchberg is another name for Neufeld?, I think that’s out of the question.

Von: Carole Vogel

Carole Vogel — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 12:35:36 +0000

I missed the fact that there were two different Isak Neufeld’s who died within a day of each other. And this helps clear up some of the mystery. I don’t think Isak Neufeld the son of David Loeb and Bela has deep roots in Mattersdorf.

I am wondering if the town Kirchburg on both tombstones is another name for the town of Neufeld.

I think Isak Neufeld the son of Tzirl is the husband of Ema Rosenburger mentioned in my first comment. However, there is still a problem. This Isak Neufeld had a father named David who married the widow Zilli (Zirl) Kohn in 1836. Military records show that Isak was born in 1830. Additionally, Zilli gave birth to children in 1835, 1837, and 1838, none of whom were Isak. So I think that Zirl was Isak’s stepmother and that the name of the birth mother has been lost.

Von: Carole Vogel

Carole Vogel — Wed, 23 Jun 2010 11:55:50 +0000

This might be the Isak Neufeld son of David who was born in 1830, married Ema Rosenberg, and lived in Wiesen. He had five daughters and one son. However there are two reasons why I am not completely certain. Isak the husband of Ema appears in the Hebrew records as the son of David not as the son of David Loeb. Usually the name of the father as it appears on a tombstone is how it appears in the Hebrew record. Second the reference to the town of Kirchburg on the tombstone is problematic. Does it mean that he was born there and that his ancestors came from there? If so it can’t be Isak the husband of Ema because his family line can be traced in Mattersdorf all the way back to the expulsion from the town of Neufeld. Incidentally, one of the Isak’s ancestors died in the cholera epidemic of 1831.