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	<title>
	Kommentare zu: Koppel Lazar Segal &#8211; 19. März 1929	</title>
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	<link>https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/</link>
	<description>Leiden und Freuden eines Inschriftentüftlers.</description>
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		<title>
		Von: Carole Vogel		</title>
		<link>https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-10812</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carole Vogel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2019 16:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=1276#comment-10812</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There were two major KOPPEL family lines in Mattersdorf. One family was a Levite family that was part of the huge SCHISCHA clan and can be traced back through the patrilinear line to the early 1600s. Lazar Koppel belonged to this family. Lazar’s father was Károly (Karl) Koppel (Segal) 

Károly (Karl) Koppel (Segal) (ca. 1826-1907 was the son of Samuel Koppel (Segal). In 1852 Karl married a Mattersdorf woman, Anna (Netti) Moses, daughter of Josef Moses and Clara/Caroline Kohn. Karl and Anna had three known children.

Samuel Koppel (Segal) (1798 to 1874) was the son of Koppel Schischa (Segal). In 1826, Samuel Koppel (Segal) married Rosalia (Chaya Sara) Schnürmacher (ca. 1800-1886), daughter if Löwy Schnürmacher, who was a Schischa descendant.  (Samuel and Rosalia were fourth cousins.)  Samuel and Rosalia had nine children.

Koppel Schischa (Segal) (ca 1764-1806) was also known as Koppel Rubin. He was the head of the Chevra Kadisha in Mattersdorf.  He had two known sons. His parents were Rubin Schischa and Leah. They had four known children.

Rubin Schischa (Segal) (1740-after 1794) was the son of Isak Ber Schischa (est. 1700-bef 1774.)

And on and on back to the early 1600s.

The other major KOPPEL family in Mattersdorf was not a Levite family and can be traced back to the 1600s too.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were two major KOPPEL family lines in Mattersdorf. One family was a Levite family that was part of the huge SCHISCHA clan and can be traced back through the patrilinear line to the early 1600s. Lazar Koppel belonged to this family. Lazar’s father was Károly (Karl) Koppel (Segal) </p>
<p>Károly (Karl) Koppel (Segal) (ca. 1826-1907 was the son of Samuel Koppel (Segal). In 1852 Karl married a Mattersdorf woman, Anna (Netti) Moses, daughter of Josef Moses and Clara/Caroline Kohn. Karl and Anna had three known children.</p>
<p>Samuel Koppel (Segal) (1798 to 1874) was the son of Koppel Schischa (Segal). In 1826, Samuel Koppel (Segal) married Rosalia (Chaya Sara) Schnürmacher (ca. 1800-1886), daughter if Löwy Schnürmacher, who was a Schischa descendant.  (Samuel and Rosalia were fourth cousins.)  Samuel and Rosalia had nine children.</p>
<p>Koppel Schischa (Segal) (ca 1764-1806) was also known as Koppel Rubin. He was the head of the Chevra Kadisha in Mattersdorf.  He had two known sons. His parents were Rubin Schischa and Leah. They had four known children.</p>
<p>Rubin Schischa (Segal) (1740-after 1794) was the son of Isak Ber Schischa (est. 1700-bef 1774.)</p>
<p>And on and on back to the early 1600s.</p>
<p>The other major KOPPEL family in Mattersdorf was not a Levite family and can be traced back to the 1600s too.</p>
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		<title>
		Von: Chaya-Bathya (Claudia) Markovits		</title>
		<link>https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-2902</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chaya-Bathya (Claudia) Markovits]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2014 04:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=1276#comment-2902</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Als Antwort auf &lt;a href=&quot;https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-2901&quot;&gt;Chaya-Bathya (Claudia) Markovits&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-2901&quot;&gt;@Chaya-Bathya (Claudia) Markovits&lt;/a&gt;, In dieser Liste scheinen mehrere Lazar (oder Latzar) Koppels auf, die aus Mattersdorf stammten:
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SHOW&#038;db=enockulle&#038;recno=217602]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Als Antwort auf <a href="https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-2901">Chaya-Bathya (Claudia) Markovits</a>.</p>
<p><a href="#comment-2901">@Chaya-Bathya (Claudia) Markovits</a>, In dieser Liste scheinen mehrere Lazar (oder Latzar) Koppels auf, die aus Mattersdorf stammten:<br />
<a href="http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SHOW&#038;db=enockulle&#038;recno=217602" rel="nofollow ugc">http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SHOW&#038;db=enockulle&#038;recno=217602</a></p>
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		<title>
		Von: Chaya-Bathya (Claudia) Markovits		</title>
		<link>https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-2901</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chaya-Bathya (Claudia) Markovits]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2014 04:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=1276#comment-2901</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wahrscheinlich gab es zur selben Zeit zwei Lazar Koppel (sicher Verwandte, z. B. Cousins) in der Gemeinde, und zur Unterscheidung wurde der eine Lazar Koppel senior (הזקן), der andere Lazar Koppel junior (הצעיר) genannt. 

Es wäre auch möglich, daß dieser Lazar einen Vater hatte, der ebenfalls Lazar hieß, aber vor dieses seines Sohnes Geburt starb, und das Neugeborene deshalb seinen Namen bekam (Lazar). Zur Unterscheidung hätte man die beiden wieder mit dem Zusatz senior und junior unterschieden.

Natürlich wären diese Thesen zu beweisen.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wahrscheinlich gab es zur selben Zeit zwei Lazar Koppel (sicher Verwandte, z. B. Cousins) in der Gemeinde, und zur Unterscheidung wurde der eine Lazar Koppel senior (הזקן), der andere Lazar Koppel junior (הצעיר) genannt. </p>
<p>Es wäre auch möglich, daß dieser Lazar einen Vater hatte, der ebenfalls Lazar hieß, aber vor dieses seines Sohnes Geburt starb, und das Neugeborene deshalb seinen Namen bekam (Lazar). Zur Unterscheidung hätte man die beiden wieder mit dem Zusatz senior und junior unterschieden.</p>
<p>Natürlich wären diese Thesen zu beweisen.</p>
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		<title>
		Von: Meir Deutsch		</title>
		<link>https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-2899</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Meir Deutsch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2014 21:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=1276#comment-2899</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Als Antwort auf &lt;a href=&quot;https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-2893&quot;&gt;Johannes&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-2893&quot;&gt;@Johannes&lt;/a&gt;, 
If he had an older important relative bearing the same name, it would mean that he had some YICHUS = status/background. As such, his father would be mentioned. Many people were called after a deceased relative, but nearly none were described on a tombstone &quot;the younger&quot;. The wording  זקן כבן עד  and not  זקן בן עד  leaves me in doubt if he was 74 years old.
It is a pity that we do not have more information about him.
Anyone knows why on most of the Koppels&#039; tombstones the father is not mentioned?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Als Antwort auf <a href="https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-2893">Johannes</a>.</p>
<p><a href="#comment-2893">@Johannes</a>,<br />
If he had an older important relative bearing the same name, it would mean that he had some YICHUS = status/background. As such, his father would be mentioned. Many people were called after a deceased relative, but nearly none were described on a tombstone &#8220;the younger&#8221;. The wording  זקן כבן עד  and not  זקן בן עד  leaves me in doubt if he was 74 years old.<br />
It is a pity that we do not have more information about him.<br />
Anyone knows why on most of the Koppels&#8217; tombstones the father is not mentioned?</p>
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		<title>
		Von: Johannes		</title>
		<link>https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-2893</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Johannes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2014 11:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=1276#comment-2893</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Als Antwort auf &lt;a href=&quot;https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-2892&quot;&gt;Meir Deutsch&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-2892&quot;&gt;@Meir Deutsch&lt;/a&gt;, 
&quot;Der Jüngere&quot; ist in unserem Sprachgebrauch völlig unabhängig vom Alter eines Menschen. Damit ist nur gemeint, dass es einen Älteren gleichen Namens gibt. Das kann von sehr alten Personen genauso gesagt werden wie von ganz jungen!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Als Antwort auf <a href="https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-2892">Meir Deutsch</a>.</p>
<p><a href="#comment-2892">@Meir Deutsch</a>,<br />
&#8220;Der Jüngere&#8221; ist in unserem Sprachgebrauch völlig unabhängig vom Alter eines Menschen. Damit ist nur gemeint, dass es einen Älteren gleichen Namens gibt. Das kann von sehr alten Personen genauso gesagt werden wie von ganz jungen!</p>
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		<title>
		Von: Meir Deutsch		</title>
		<link>https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-2892</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Meir Deutsch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2014 09:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=1276#comment-2892</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Als Antwort auf &lt;a href=&quot;https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-2883&quot;&gt;Johannes&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-2883&quot;&gt;@Johannes&lt;/a&gt;, 
@Chaya-Bathya (Claudia) Markovits.

Nachala is an unusual name, but according to a Jewish Name database this name exists and is both feminine and masculine. See:
http://www.shemli.co.il/hebnames/name_details.seam?nameID=5329
It seems from the tombstone that the name comes after &quot;son of&quot;. Why do we search for his mother? His father&#039;s name is also not mentioned on the stone, therefore, I assume, that it is his father&#039;s name. The mother&#039;s names are usually mentioned separately, mostly at the bottom of the stone, as   ש&quot;א   or  אמה/שם אמו = his/her mother&#039;s name. It surprises me that on many of the Koppel family&#039;s tombstones they do not mention the father&#039;s name as is usually done on Jewish gravestones.
What puzzles me is; was he at death an old man or a young one? At the top of the stone it says:
י&quot;א [ירא אלוהים?] זקן כבן עד     with dots over עד. What do the dots mean? Do they mean that he was actually 74 years old, or is it meant that we should read it as a word = WITNESS? It does not say that he was 74 years old; it says &quot;AS 74&quot;. Why would one write &quot;old as one aged 74&quot;? Was he 74 or was he as 74?
The year of death has also dots, but cannot explain why the &quot;Beth&quot; of Adar Beth is also dotted.
If he was so old, what is meant by   הצעיר = young after his name? It is not &quot; Koppel the younger&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Als Antwort auf <a href="https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-2883">Johannes</a>.</p>
<p><a href="#comment-2883">@Johannes</a>,<br />
@Chaya-Bathya (Claudia) Markovits.</p>
<p>Nachala is an unusual name, but according to a Jewish Name database this name exists and is both feminine and masculine. See:<br />
<a href="http://www.shemli.co.il/hebnames/name_details.seam?nameID=5329" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.shemli.co.il/hebnames/name_details.seam?nameID=5329</a><br />
It seems from the tombstone that the name comes after &#8220;son of&#8221;. Why do we search for his mother? His father&#8217;s name is also not mentioned on the stone, therefore, I assume, that it is his father&#8217;s name. The mother&#8217;s names are usually mentioned separately, mostly at the bottom of the stone, as   ש&#8221;א   or  אמה/שם אמו = his/her mother&#8217;s name. It surprises me that on many of the Koppel family&#8217;s tombstones they do not mention the father&#8217;s name as is usually done on Jewish gravestones.<br />
What puzzles me is; was he at death an old man or a young one? At the top of the stone it says:<br />
י&#8221;א [ירא אלוהים?] זקן כבן עד     with dots over עד. What do the dots mean? Do they mean that he was actually 74 years old, or is it meant that we should read it as a word = WITNESS? It does not say that he was 74 years old; it says &#8220;AS 74&#8221;. Why would one write &#8220;old as one aged 74&#8221;? Was he 74 or was he as 74?<br />
The year of death has also dots, but cannot explain why the &#8220;Beth&#8221; of Adar Beth is also dotted.<br />
If he was so old, what is meant by   הצעיר = young after his name? It is not &#8221; Koppel the younger&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		Von: Johannes		</title>
		<link>https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-2883</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Johannes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2014 18:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=1276#comment-2883</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Als Antwort auf &lt;a href=&quot;https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-2882&quot;&gt;Chaya-Bathya (Claudia) Markovits&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-2882&quot;&gt;@Chaya-Bathya (Claudia) Markovits&lt;/a&gt;, das war auch mein erster Gedanke, weil ja wirklich naheliegend. Da ich aber den Namen absolut nirgends finden konnte, hab ichs wieder verworfen. 
Und ja, nicht nur auf Mattersdorfer Grabsteinen findet man den Muttername, auch in Eisenstadt und in allen anderen Gemeinden des Burgenlandes. Wurde immer wieder drüber spekuliert, was der Grund dafür sein kann, dass das hier so übermäßig oft, auftritt.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Als Antwort auf <a href="https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-2882">Chaya-Bathya (Claudia) Markovits</a>.</p>
<p><a href="#comment-2882">@Chaya-Bathya (Claudia) Markovits</a>, das war auch mein erster Gedanke, weil ja wirklich naheliegend. Da ich aber den Namen absolut nirgends finden konnte, hab ichs wieder verworfen.<br />
Und ja, nicht nur auf Mattersdorfer Grabsteinen findet man den Muttername, auch in Eisenstadt und in allen anderen Gemeinden des Burgenlandes. Wurde immer wieder drüber spekuliert, was der Grund dafür sein kann, dass das hier so übermäßig oft, auftritt.</p>
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		<title>
		Von: Chaya-Bathya (Claudia) Markovits		</title>
		<link>https://der-transkribierer.at/burgenland/juedischer-friedhof-mattersburg/koppel-elieser-19-maerz-1929/#comment-2882</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chaya-Bathya (Claudia) Markovits]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2014 17:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojm.at/blog/?p=1276#comment-2882</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Vielleicht ist mit בנ נחלה gemeint: בן נחלה, also נחלה der Muttername. (Obwohl mir ein solcher Frauenname noch nie untergekommen ist. Vielleicht soll das sein fuer נעכא-לע?) Auf Mattersdorfer Grabsteinen erscheint ja meist auch der Muttername.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vielleicht ist mit בנ נחלה gemeint: בן נחלה, also נחלה der Muttername. (Obwohl mir ein solcher Frauenname noch nie untergekommen ist. Vielleicht soll das sein fuer נעכא-לע?) Auf Mattersdorfer Grabsteinen erscheint ja meist auch der Muttername.</p>
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